the conversation was about chuck hagel and colin powell's support for chuck hagel, and he's being questioned about chuck hagel talking about the jewish lobby, and colin powell said that's a slip of the tongue, that happens. he meant the israeli lobby. so he's correct to defend chuck hagel, for a phrase that many saw as anti-semitic and intolerant. and not sarah palin. >> i thought you were going to break out the aggressively gay comment made by chuck hagel. before we get to l.z.'s viewpoint, i want to hear what jay carney said, one of the president's men. listen. >> i'm going to shuck and jive. time to shuck and jive. that's the super secret book. >> so, l.z., jay carney, the white house spokesman, said shuck and jive too. doesn't that muddy the waters a bit? >> no, of course not. it all depends upon who is saying it, what is the phrase is -- who the phrase is directed toward, and what is its intent? in the sarah palin incident, she was blowing a dog whistle. with carney, he was just referring to himself. those are two different things. i want to back up to some of the things that will talke